Chopin Op.10 No.12

[schubertiad]

This is my first venture into the alternative forum, so ppppo to everyone.
I'm battling through Chopin's revolutionary etude, and have it pretty solid to just over half tempo, however when i push it much faster i seem to be hitting a bit of a speed wall. Of course, i can slam down the pedal, blitz my way through and be done with it, but i've been practising sans pedal, and refuse to use it until i can play up to tempo perfectly without. The parts giving me the most problems are the quick left hand modulations in bars 15-16, bars 33-35 and 65-68, which i find almost impossible to play legato. Does anyone have any good practise routines for these parts, and the piece as a whole? One more thing: The metronome marking in my edition is crotchet=160, which seems to correlate to most recordings. However, i feel that this is a little too pacy, and it wouldn't hurt to lessen it a little (nearer to 140), which would let the melody sing out a little more, and seem less like a manic race from start to finish. Was the metronome marking Chopin's?

[YetAnotherKlavierist]

schubertiad said:

The parts giving me the most problems are the quick left hand modulations in bars 15-16,

These two bars are quite fiddly. I've found that practising it with the left hand in rhythms works quite well. In particular, play each group of eight semiquavers as:

quaver semiquaver-tripets semiquaver-tripets quaver

This really helps with the tricky 1-4 turn between the 2nd and 3rd notes of each group. The rhythm:

semiquaver-tripets quaver quaver semiquaver-tripets

helps with shifting the hand shape.

bars 33-35 and 65-68, which i find almost impossible to play legato.

First, you say you're playing without pedal? Allow yourself pedal if only to make the leap between the first and second notes of each bar in the left hand: it's a great psychological help. One of the problems with having to make such a quick leap is that tension builds up, causing a loss of accuracy on the top note landing and making it difficult to smoothly execute the following notes. I have an Ashkenazy recording of this and I'm fairly confident if you listen to whichever you have there'll be a slight 'breath' between the first and second notes in the left hand; creating a nice operatic-leap effect and making it playable.

As for getting the subsequent notes smooth: rhythms, again, the previous two working quite well along with the usual rhythms. Also, learn to play each bar backwards - it seems daft but it really helps.

One more thing: The metronome marking in my edition is crotchet=160, which seems to correlate to most recordings. However, i feel that this is a little too pacy, and it wouldn't hurt to lessen it a little (nearer to 140), which would let the melody sing out a little more, and seem less like a manic race from start to finish. Was the metronome marking Chopin's?

I have the Wiener Urtext edition, which gives the metronome mark as crotchet=160, taken from Chopin's original French edition. The autograph score in Stockholm gives minim=76. I played it at somewhere around crotchet=140 as you suggest, and listening to my recording Ashkenazy seems to share that view too.

Hope that helps .

[Steve Hopwood]

Hi schubertiad

We can treat these studies in two ways: as technical development pieces; as performance pieces.

As technical development pieces, it does us good to push our techniques to the limit, and to get as close to the mm marking as possible. We just have to be careful not to tighten up when we do this, as this will both cause long-term damage and reduce the maximum speed at which we can play them.

As performance pieces, they are better played more slowly to allow them to sing and to give listeners a chance to register the notes. I also have Ashkenazy playing them and feel they are beautiful for their more moderate speed.

I have played all of op 25 and many of op 10. They all have moments that are more difficult\awkward than the rest of the piece. I tend to use a bit of judicious rubato to get around them ;D

Hope this helps, too

Steve

[schubertiad]

Thanks for the advice (both of you). I'll certainly give your rhythm trick a try, ditto with playing backwards (who taught you that one???). Regarding 'judicious rubato': could a pianist wish for a better friend? It's funny how it always seems to crop up in the impossible bits, isn't it?