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Post by princessmoose on May 28, 2006 19:49:42 GMT
No-one said there was anything wrong with singing (even if there is), but we are merely of the opinion that it is a pointless thing to do when one is taking an examination on an instrument, not their voice (I am not saying voice isn't an instrument). My point is, and I suspect Steve's as well, is that we don't take exams, or enter students for exams to be tested on their singing. They are learning piano, clarinet, sax or whatever, not how to sing. It is not just as simple as playing it back on your instrument. I actually think that is harder, personally.
The new Trinity Guildhall Aural Tests, in my view, are much more useful. There are tests on features of a piece, intervals, cadences, recognising differences in what is played and what is on the score. What is the need to sing back phrases, what does that prove? That one has a good memory? I am still of the opinion that to be able to do that part of the exam successfully, one has to have a decent voice and a decent memory - count me out, on both points.
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Post by Helen on May 28, 2006 19:52:22 GMT
. It's testing what you are hearing in your head, Which for me, is nothing then. I am unmusical. I can't do anything aural like, particularly singing. My flute teacher will tell you that -My final comment.
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Post by princessmoose on May 28, 2006 19:55:40 GMT
Helen you are missing the point. It's not a test of your singing, this is made clear in the rules. You will not be judged on your vocal quality. It's testing what you are hearing in your head, hence you can hum, whistle, play if you prefer. Playing the kazzoo would probably have the same effect. My final comment. I do not think Helen is missing the point at all to be quite frank. We've been here before many a time. Whether it is made clear in the rules or not still doesn't mean it is set in stone. Rules are there to be broken . If one person cannot sing well in tune then of course they are going to be marked down because of it. Also, I can hear things perfectly in my head, but then producing decent and accurate sounds from my mouth is a lot more difficult. Laugh as much as you want, but unless you have a lot of experience of this then you are not one to judge where we are coming from. Not my final comment. I'd also like to add, good on Trinity Guildhall for their new syllabi.
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Post by anacrusis on May 28, 2006 20:22:16 GMT
Do you have to sing to prove that you can identify an interval, though, Neil? Surely if you can show this another way, and if you cannot control your voice or whistle well enough to demonstrate, the other way would do as well? Those who can sing are at an advantage on this, I think.
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Post by chocolatedog on May 28, 2006 20:39:23 GMT
I have to say: good on TG - one of my pupils was bemoaning the fact she's got all the major scales and all melodic and harmonic minors to remember for her grade 6 when in fact she'll probably only be asked for 5 or 6 of them. Waste of time - doesn't TG only concentrate on a few scales for each grade? Good idea - the AB isn't so bad at grade 1, but after that the scales get a bit silly for some of my kids. I'm beginning to come round to their point of view despite the fact that I myself looooove scales!
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Post by princessmoose on May 28, 2006 20:59:53 GMT
CD: There are less scales for Trinity - woo!
My issue with aural tests is that they bear no relevance to the instrument one is taking an exam in. I do not enter pupils, nor do I take exams myself to be assessed on how well I can remember a 4 bar melody and how well I can pitch it to sing it back. The exams, in my opinion, are testing one's ability to play their instrument, whether that be piano, voice, clarinet, or kazoo.
If someone is that desperate to sing back phrases then surely that is what the Practical Musicianship exams are for? Or are they in existance just for the sake of it?
I despise aural tests, and always have done. Has that stopped my playing from improving? No. Has that stopped me from getting where I want to with my music? No.
I don't get asked to teach students because they want to learn how to sing back phrases. They want to learn how to play an instrument.
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Post by Steve Hopwood on May 28, 2006 21:08:42 GMT
Sorry to get controversial but this can hardly be a good thing. What on earth is wrong with singing? Are we implying children are incapable of singing, that the AB have had tests in place incompatible with children for decades and STILL not realised, that children in 2006 are less capable of singing than when AB started? I don't think so. The voice is the most natural instrument we all possess. Anyway, you can still hum, whistle. play back on your instrument if you are a sing phobic (if such a term exists). I don't care if I get smited (again!) for speaking my mind on this (edit - my crystal ball didn't lie there ;D), but it's apalling. Shame on TG. I disagree. What a surprise ;D TG are simply moving with the times. It is some considerable time since I last taught a piano student child happy to sing in their piano lesson. Singers do so quite happily. This has been a gradual process. When I started my career back in the mid 70's, kids were much more used to singing than they are now. Back then, there was little resistance to singing. This resistance has gradually increased. 30 years is a long time; now the average piano student would rather be tortured than sing. Only because they do not understand what torture is, mind you. ;D Taking this seriously, I am sorry Neil, but why should pianists sing if they do not want to? Putting it bluntly, the piano is a magnificent instrument that both sings and provides its own accompaniment. Compared to this, the voice is a pale apology for an instrument. Why should pianists put up with second best? By the by, I for one will not be smiting you. That would be far to redolent of the reporting culture encouraged by the censors in Another Place. ;D Steve
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Post by Steve Hopwood on May 28, 2006 21:20:38 GMT
So why then have I felt so much more confident about playing in general since I seriously started aural, sight singing, and especially 'The L. Ron Hubbard of Music'. If singing was done properly in schools this would never be a problem. Granted, that's not much help to those already let down by this system and are faced with aural tests, but I don't think anyone is completely incapable of doing it, as much as they might think they are. Solfege is the best thing I learned in this respect, others use interval recognition, whatever works for them. I'm not saying anyone who can't do this is a bad musician, simply doing so. Try it, it works, and that is what AB aural is trying to encourage. Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox now and give you all peace. No need to get off your soapbox, Neil. The difference between here and Another Place is that contributors can argue with the soapbox holder and vice versa, without fear that one party might be 'reported' to moderators with favourites. Carry on arguing your corner. Accept that others will argue back. That is what forums are for. Try not to let behaviour on the AB forums put you off arguing here. Steve
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Post by Steve Hopwood on May 28, 2006 21:24:58 GMT
I have to say: good on TG - one of my pupils was bemoaning the fact she's got all the major scales and all melodic and harmonic minors to remember for her grade 6 when in fact she'll probably only be asked for 5 or 6 of them. Waste of time - doesn't TG only concentrate on a few scales for each grade? Good idea - the AB isn't so bad at grade 1, but after that the scales get a bit silly for some of my kids. I'm beginning to come round to their point of view despite the fact that I myself looooove scales! We can't help your perversions cd ;D Don't mean it - only kidding. I agree that being able to concentrate on a few technical requirements will raise the standard of playing of them. Candidates will gain that much more from them than they do by flogging through the silly number of scales demanded by the AB. I think that TG must be listening to teachers - a pleasant change. Steve
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Post by chocolatedog on May 28, 2006 21:42:15 GMT
ppppo Steve
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Post by princessmoose on May 28, 2006 21:43:29 GMT
Now that hands down wins post of the year cd .
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Post by Steve Hopwood on May 28, 2006 21:45:47 GMT
Ehup cd. Exalted you as I promised. Just waiting to do YAP, when my hour is up. Steve
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Post by chocolatedog on May 28, 2006 21:49:24 GMT
Don't understand this karma thingy...... :unsure;
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Post by Steve Hopwood on May 28, 2006 21:50:01 GMT
how many instruments have so many 'studies' that are also delightful pieces. Different story for clarinet, yes. Lots of sympathy. We pianists are spoiled by the repertoire we have available. Stunning. Steve
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Post by Steve Hopwood on May 28, 2006 21:56:26 GMT
Don't understand this karma thingy...... :unsure; And you an Cambridge girl. Get a grip CD. Click the 'Exalt' link on the left and the recipient's karma increases. Click 'Smite' and the reverse happens. Put briefly, Exalt every posting by Nat. Smite every posting by me. Justice will be best served that way ;D ;D ;D Steve
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