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Post by Dulciana on Oct 16, 2006 12:28:29 GMT
There's a thread about this on TOP at the minute. I would really love some good advice on this - specifially with regard to stroppy teenagers. I would cause great offence now by sending them to another teacher, since their old one (also mine) is a very close friend, but I'm failing miserably myself. Anything at all - structuring/motivating/"teenage repertoire". I have a serious attitude problem with other teachers as far as my own children are concerned. I tend to think I could always do a better job myself - musically - and could not resist interfering - but I can't teach them psychologically, if that makes sense. The person that they went to was second to none, but I think there was a problem with neither party taking the other seriously. How can I get these kids moving again?
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Post by Dulciana on Oct 16, 2006 12:32:13 GMT
My post from TOP. Having just recently learnt to copy and paste I've pasted it here.
I've been reading this thread with interest because it's quite a big issue with me! I don't think I've got anything constructive to add, but I will add my voice behind the original question that the first post ended with - If you have any suggestions about the teenage years, do tell! I am at a loss at the minute.
I have four children, between 7 and 15. I taught the first three for the early grades (piano) and then sent them to another teacher, but always felt that I was still teaching them myself - as did their teacher, and it didn't always go down very well. . Eventually we amicably agreed that I would just take the job on again myself, and that he would just see them from time to time to see how things were going. That worked well for a time, but I have come to a standstill since they took their last grade exams. Number 1 is supposed to be working for Grade 8 now, but I made the mistake of buying him "Queen's Greatest Hits", and he has struggled with the Bohemian Rhapsody for months now; it has stopped getting any better, and he refuses to tackle anything else. Number two gave up after Grade 3 in favour of drumkit and persussion, and is now at Grade 2 and 4 in those. Number 3 passed Grade 6 but is daunted by Grade 7 so is now playing Debussy's "The Little Negro", which is fair enough - he doesn't have to be doing exams all the time. But practice has decreased a lot; I have always found my children need a specific goal or their motivation is low. (It's probably in the genes - I'm pretty goal-orientated myself!) Number 4 is probably the most musical of us all, but is also the most pig-headed. He was ready to do Grade 1 but (fee paid) refused to go! Not a huge problem in the longterm, but the current problem is that his best friend thinks playing the piano is silly...If he had a good teacher who would motivate him well he would make good progress, but he says he doesn't want another teacher; he wants me - but he won't listen to me!
To those of you who are making a success of teaching your own - I really take my hat off to you! It's not easy, by any means! Where technicalities are concerned, I found it very difficult to keep my mouth shut and let their teacher do the job. And there were times when we both assumed that the other was covering something that they weren't! We were good friends (still are) and maybe this in itself was a bad thing - a stranger might have been more in charge. Now, on my own, I find it impossible to provide the structure for my own children that I provide for my paying pupils.
HELP! They all have great potential, and I can see it going to the dogs!
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Post by jod on Oct 16, 2006 13:50:41 GMT
I replied at TOP, but seiously don't give up hope. Number 4 is that your Matty? It's my Matti that I teach and at times he treats me as if I don't know what I'm doing. He has a small problem with practice too!
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Post by anacrusis on Oct 16, 2006 14:33:09 GMT
I haven't taught my kids as such, but our first piano teacher (a gem!) liked parents to sit in, so I was able to help with practice, reinforcing what the teacher had said in the lessons. This worked well for the elder one, less so for the younger, who is fairly strong-headed and who wasn't so keen to learn in the first place. The gem retired, and we moved on to a teacher who is a high flyer himself, really knows his stuff....but didn't "get" what my kids were about, and I didn't know how to get this across properly to him. He would be fantastic for well-motivated high flyers, I've no doubt. The littlie decided she'd had enough, and stopped, the big one stopped more by default for reasons I'm not going into here. Last summer he rediscovered the piano at my parents' - no other distractions like computers there - and asked to learn jazz, which he would be good at, I think - and if he does do this, he will also have to do so more independently, as I can't either count or swing! He is coming into an adolescent phase, and needs to assert his independence, but it is a place where satan livesish job for a parent to steer through the minefield of providing much needed support without being too smothery. I have the greatest of respect for teachers who manage to teach their teenaged kids - I admit it would defeat me totally.
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Post by Dulciana on Oct 16, 2006 16:16:32 GMT
jod - I know you replied there, but I thought if you had something stronger to say you might be more likely to say it here! Like "Wise up, you stupid cow, back off and leave them alone!" or "Why couldn't you just let their other teacher get on with it?" Yes, my Matty is number four. I managed to get 15 minutes out of him today, which was great! Once the TV goes on I've lost it...
anacrusis - when you said you can't count or swing, did you really mean swing?!
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Post by Steve Hopwood on Oct 16, 2006 20:13:47 GMT
Wise up, you stupid cow, back off and leave them alone! Why couldn't you just let their other teacher get on with it? Sorry. Couldn't resist that ;D Seriously, it is rare for parents to be able to teach their own kids - not unknown, but rare. Even supervising their kids' practice can be a minefield for pro musicians; each practice session can turn into a mini-lesson, with demands for perfection that the kids are not ready\willing\able to meet. Remember that I comment without knowing all the subtle nuances of your situation. It seems to me that you need to find a teacher who commands the respect of both you and the kids; you then need to leave well alone and allow this teacher to do the job. Remember Izzy and Sophie of fame in possom's 'Sight reading to perfecting a piece' thread? Their mum is a piano teacher who brings the girls to me because the alternative to having someone else teach them the piano is killing them. ;D The arrangements are: the girls only approach mum for help if they are totally stuck to the degree of helplessness - otherwise, they do the best they can, safe in the knowledge that their efforts will not attract criticism; mum does not expect perfection from the kids just because she is a piano teacher; I not expect perfection from the kids just because mum is a piano teacher. Granted, it helps that mum, Helen, and I have a liking for one another and share a similar outlook on kids. We have not actually had to 'negotiate' our positions - they happened naturally. Do you perhaps need to identify your required characteristics in a teacher, find one that meets them and negotiate a 'deal'? Or do you just need to butt out and leave everyone to it? Steve
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Post by Dulciana on Oct 16, 2006 22:55:05 GMT
Maybe I'll devise a teacher questionnaire ;D I wonder how that would go down...I wonder what the teachers on TOP would think; I'd be hung, drawn and quartered!
But yes, I'd love to be able to butt out. What ever happened to old-fashioned self-discipline?
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Post by Steve Hopwood on Oct 16, 2006 23:09:25 GMT
Maybe I'll devise a teacher questionnaire ;D I wonder how that would go down...I wonder what the teachers on TOP would think; I'd be hung, drawn and quartered! 8th, 16th and 32nded. You will be quite small after all that. It always surprises me that parents do not approach me with just such a questionnaire. Then again, I didn't when finding teachers for my son and Heidi. Don't know. Never had any ;D
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Post by anacrusis on Oct 17, 2006 0:05:24 GMT
anacrusis - when you said you can't count or swing, did you really mean swing?! Just the rhythm thing. Not the other sort of swinging!
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Post by mitch on Oct 17, 2006 10:59:50 GMT
Hi Dulciana. I know exactly where you're coming from on this one. I had a guy who taught my 3 kids for about 5 years. He came to the house for an hour and became (still is ) a friend. I'm very fond of him. However..I used to 'butt' out of lessons and let him get on with it because they enjoyed the lessons. He developed an approach with their learning which was to get them to play a piece a.s.a.p. My middle son especially , was very impatient and if he had been with a more disciplined teacher, would have given up. The downside was they learnt by rote...he was spoon feeding the notes to them so they were not having to make the effort of having to work out the notes! Upside...they always had a captive audience in their class as they showed off their latest piece which, having been learnt by rote, was also memorised! Anyway, Steve knows about this dilemma, and we decided to save daughter from his style of teaching. She is still young enough, only 8. She did Grade 1 last Easter with old teacher and got 24/25 in her 4 pieces. Yes, they were doing LCM Leisure play. However, no pieces in between grades, just learning exam pieces!!! Daughter is now with someone who the boys would not get on with ( well, my middle one anyway). Daughter loves her, loves having to work now and work out notes, loves the fact she now understands how her fingers , wrists can move easily to notes, hand position e.t.c. all those technical things of which she was unaware. She was developing her own style of playing. ( Oh, Blimey....reminds me of a thread!!). Anyway, sorry this is so long. The upshot of it is, we left my friend teacher before the summer. Boys gave up. Daughter moves to the new teacher, which , as I said she loves. Middle son is doing Music GCSE and wants to learn a piece ready for Performance in a couple of weeks and asked me to teach him!!! He is actually 'listening' to me...I still have to pinch myself. I know I can''t change his style, but he is listening and taking on board my suggestions....and actually doing it!! He's determined you see, to show off to his friends. Carrot! Eldest son is also wanting to learn again...also like putty for me. He wants it for his application to uni...another carrot. The good thing though, is that they are enjoying it. I'll never be able to retrain their technique, but I do put in the odd comment, without insisting they do it, otherwise it all falls down. They are Grade 5 ish standard and won't get any further but they enjoy what they do. So, in some ways the old teacher was good for them, well good for middle one as he is strong willed.. My eldest and youngest would have been o.k. with a more disciplined approach. I'm also in a dilemma as I don't know if my son doing the GCSE needs a piano teacher again...they are gonna have to be easy going!! There is only so much I can do.
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Post by mitch on Oct 17, 2006 11:01:10 GMT
;D ;D Hey, love my last post....so long!! How did I do it? No...don't answer that. I'm getting forumitis. Must go out!!
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Post by jod on Oct 17, 2006 11:10:23 GMT
Well Matti has learnt as a result of his book review going up on the wall that Mum really does know best in some areas.
You need to be very patient and persistent, and not take any crap of your children. I find the line would your do that with [name of school teacher]? quite useful. The answer is invariably no, in which case you remind them at at this moment you are not mum, but teacher.
When I help out at school I insist I'm referred to by all of Matti and Alexander's class mates as Mrs Debenham, and not MAtthew/Alexander's mum. Even my own children have to call me Mrs Debenham. It does concentrate the mind and create a bit of professional distance.
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Post by mitch on Oct 17, 2006 11:18:41 GMT
Well Matti has learnt as a result of his book review going up on the wall that Mum really does know best in some areas. You need to be very patient and persistent, and not take any crap of your children. I find the line would your do that with [name of school teacher]? quite useful. The answer is invariably no, in which case you remind them at at this moment you are not mum, but teacher. When I help out at school I insist I'm referred to by all of Matti and Alexander's class mates as Mrs Debenham, and not MAtthew/Alexander's mum. Even my own children have to call me Mrs Debenham. It does concentrate the mind and create a bit of professional distance. Wow..you've even scared me now...Mrs Debenham ;D
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Post by Dulciana on Oct 17, 2006 15:54:49 GMT
Well Matti has learnt as a result of his book review going up on the wall that Mum really does know best in some areas. You need to be very patient and persistent, and not take any crap of your children. I find the line would your do that with [name of school teacher]? quite useful. The answer is invariably no, in which case you remind them at at this moment you are not mum, but teacher. When I help out at school I insist I'm referred to by all of Matti and Alexander's class mates as Mrs Debenham, and not MAtthew/Alexander's mum. Even my own children have to call me Mrs Debenham. It does concentrate the mind and create a bit of professional distance. When I help out in school the other kids find it mildly amusing when the teachers refer to me by my surname... - even the ones who are my piano pupils. Can I go back to before the oldest was born and start again? You sound really positve, miochy. I'm in negative mode at the minute. Self and big bro have just had an attempt each at helping Matty; I stormed off after 5 minutes, and big bro lasted 2. He says I'm wasting my time because he just doesn't want to do it enough. Maybe he's right.
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Post by mitch on Oct 17, 2006 22:35:57 GMT
I do know how you feel , honest.
I was so down just before the summer. I knew my daughter would be o.k. with new teacher, but BOTH my boys wanting to stop playing was breaking my heart.
I'd been here before, of course, even with the lenient teacher I had!!and somehow they'd carried on then.
I don't know, but, maybe because there is always music in the house, maybe that is why the boys want to come on board again.
They just keep dippin in. They will nver be fantastic musicians, but they can play a tune and have an appreciation of the wonderful world of music making.
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