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Post by petite joueuse on May 21, 2006 16:37:25 GMT
I really need some sound advice here, folks! I have posted the same on [sssssssssshhhhhh - that other forum] but the discussions haven't really helped me. So far its: Scarlatti - pair of sonatas in C Schumann - 2 Fantasiestuecke Chopin - Nocturne in E Shostakovich - Prelude & Fugue in D major Gershwin - Man I love & I got rhythm OK, so I've not included a 20 minute Beethoven or Mozart Sonata - yes, I know I'm missing out the Classical period - but seriously, in 30 minutes of programme what do they really want. If I insert a B or M sonata, I can kiss goodbye to Schumann, Chopin and Shosta (NO WAY!!). I THINK my programme has a very broad range of style and genre and period. Is the lack of Classical a "glaring ommission". Would they fail me for lack of balance?? In my own mind, I actually think its a programme which works well. The "generalist" audience would appreciate it - the leap from Scarlatti to Schumann is striking; Schumann and Chopin, though comtemporaries are very different; Shostakovich is vastly under-represented in the piano performance world (my opinion!); Gershwin makes for a lovely showy finish. I really would appreciate some feedback. Steve - what do you think? Yap - any thoughts? Anyone else? - Particularly those of you who have been through Dip (and out the other side!) Many thanks, Congrats to the setter-uppers of this forum!! PJ
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Post by princessmoose on May 21, 2006 19:02:11 GMT
I've never done a dip, but am I right in saying that as long as you have sufficient back up and reasons for not including a Classical sonata then you should be ok? I'd imagine this would come up in the Viva.
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Post by Steve Hopwood on May 21, 2006 20:47:45 GMT
I can see your problem. A 30 minute programme is really neither here nor there, is it? Not enough to fill out a lunchtime concert, even. I agree that once you include a classical sonata, you are stuffed timewise. Here are a few thoughts. Chopin and Schumann were born in the same year. Granted, their composing styles were completely different (wouldn't be recognised as genius' else) but they are both 'early romantic' from an examiner's point of view. Why play 2 Scarlatti sonatas? Suppose you took out one of the sonatas and the Chopin. That would free up enough time for a decent classical piece that is not as long as a sonata. There are a couple of pieces that come to my mind here, both by Mozart. The first is his C minor Fantasie, K 396. The second is his A minor rondo k 511. Ihave timings of myself playing both of these in 9 minutes. Is that too much? Using either of these would give you a baroque, classical, romantic, 20th century 'serious' and 20th century 'jazzy' programme. Hard to get much more balanced than that. What do you think, petitejoyeuse? Steve
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Post by petite joueuse on May 21, 2006 22:03:32 GMT
Thanks for the replies so far!
Steve, I'm doing 2 Scarlatti sonatas because that's what the repertoire list demands (!), but also because Scarlatti did write them in pairs! I agree with your thoughts on Schumann/Chopin...but they are very different.
Timing-wise it would have to be a classical piece that last the same as the Schumann or the Chopin. I am NOT ditching Shosta for anything, and I think the Gershwin is a great way to finish (and a contemporary of Shosta yet totally different).
The Dip repertoire lists oodles of Beethoven/Mozart sonatas....but some of them are 20 minutes long! Yuk! I don't suppose you know the Schubert Impromptu in Gflat? Any good? What about Brahms? Is he classical enough?
HELP! PJ
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Post by princessmoose on May 21, 2006 22:05:00 GMT
I've heard the Schubert Impromptu and I think it is ace...don't know what the score is like though.
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Post by AnotherPianist on May 21, 2006 22:24:55 GMT
I think Brahms would be too late: similar to Schumann and Chopin. Schubert sounds like a possibility it's late classical but just about classical enough possibly, I'll let someone else answer that . I sympathise with your problem, I can understand the demand to play something from each era: but to practically demand that 2/3 of the programme comes from one specific era is not very helpful. The other quite heavy restriction seems to be that one pretty much has to play Bach or Scarlatti, unless one can get away with a more modern prelude and fugue (Mendelssohn or Shostakovich) as the contrapuntal 'Baroque' piece....
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Post by schubertiad on May 22, 2006 6:10:59 GMT
How long is the Shost P+F? Would it be possible to substitute it for something smaller, for instance his op.1 Fantastic Dances (which aren't too tough, and are all about a minute long). That would free up a little more time, which, combined with ditching the Chopin would allow for a smaller classical piece.
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Post by Steve Hopwood on May 22, 2006 8:17:34 GMT
I don't suppose you know the Schubert Impromptu in Gflat? Any good? What about Brahms? Is he classical enough? HELP! PJ I play the impromptu in 6 minutes; others play it more quickly and so take less. It isn't really a Classical piece, though. How important is balance? Does having works by two early Romantics born in the same year contradict the concept of 'balance' within the syllabus? If not, then your programme looks fine as it is. If it does, then how about Beethoven's C major Rondo, Op 51. I don't have a timing written on this, but it will be 4 to 5 minutes. Brahms was a much later Romantic. His music was written on a larger scale than that of Schumann and Chopin and is recognisably 'later'. Something by him would remove the early Romantic bias to your programme but you still would not have anything Classical. It all comes down to how important you think it is to have a Classical piece. I don't know the syllabus and so cannot say. Steve
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Post by petite joueuse on May 22, 2006 8:23:20 GMT
schubertiad - thanks for the alternative slant on this tricky problem! The Shosta is currently about 4-4.5 mins - not long, I know, but still "important"! I will look into the fantastic dances, and possibility of ditching Chopin or Schumann.
How do folks feel about the Schubert Impromptu? I had a listen to it on Classicalmusic archives last night - its actually very well-known, and I suspect I could do it, but it has quite a romantic feel about it - would it be classical enough?
Honestly, what a headache! I really feel quite strongly that ditching quality parts of my programme so I can do 20 minutes of Beethoven Sonata is really not on! Unfortunately, I am the first Dip candidate my teacher has ever had - so he can't really advise me. I think his angle is more along the lines of "these pieces she plays well - lots of dynamic range, wide styles & genres, good spread from late Baroque to early 20thc - plenty of interesting things to talk about in the Viva".
Do keep your thoughts coming! And the drinks are on me if I ever get through this Dip!!
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Post by petite joueuse on May 22, 2006 8:38:20 GMT
steve, Here's the exact wording from the syllabus... "In your choice of repertoire, you should aim to present a GENERALIST programme that offers a WIDE-RANGING YET COHERENT mixture of periods, style, mood and tempo, with no more than one work by any single compser (except where a combination of movements or pieces from a composer's collect is indicated in the prescribed lists). You should be able to demonstrate musical technique and perception at a level worthy of public performance and appreciation."
(The BOLD letters are mine!!) I have to laugh at the "no more than one work" - the repertoire list insists on PAIRED Scarlatti sonatas, TWO of Schumann's Fantasiestuecke, COMPLETE sonatas by Beethoven and Mozart (or things like 32 variations in C minor!!).
They're really not giving a lot of room for manoeuvre, are they?
The prescribed Mozart sonatas last 24, 17, 16, 17 minutes (according to a fair CD recording I've got). If I was to do the 24 minute one, that would leave me 6 minutes in which to do Baroque, Romantic and modern!!
I really need to get this sorted ASAP so I can bash on with all the background reading (never mind actually learning the pieces!)
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Post by Steve Hopwood on May 22, 2006 10:45:07 GMT
I understand. I think the choice of both Schumann and Chopin is unbalancing your programme. This means you are playing three pieces by composers born within the same year. I know their styles are completely different, but it is as easy to hear the difference between early romantic and late romantic, as it is the difference between romantic and any other period. I have looked at the repertoire list. The Mozart B minor Adagio is on it. This is actually the very first piece that came to mind when I was suggesting the alternatives in an earlier post, but did not make the suggestion as I assumed it would be technically too easy for a diploma. It is simple, in terms of playing the notes. It is a diploma piece because of the deep musical understanding it requires - it is deep, dark Mozart rather than light, brilliant Mozart. I play it in 6 minutes 25 seconds, so it is only a little longer than the Chopin. Balance in a short programme can be achieved in two ways: by making the bulk of it a classical sonata and surrounding that with short pieces from different periods. For example, your Scarlatti and Shostakovitch on either side of a classical sonata balances perfectly. This is how I plan most of my mid-day concerts of 45 minutes, with more pieces as there is more time. The other way is to have a lot of shorter pieces of differing styles and moods that lead to a climax, either an emotional, technically brilliant or light-hearted one. If you replaced the Chopin with the Mozart, you could have the delicacy and brilliance of Scarlatti followed by the dark, somber aspect of the Adagio. The peace of Des Abends would lighten the mood, then Aufschwung would provide excitement. The Preludes would provide the 20th century stuff and the Gershwin would provide the 'finisher'. This is how I would plan the programme. You might not like the Mozart but I would look for something similar, especially if you can include an own-choice piece. It is your recital, mind, and your choice in the end. This is just my opinion and I make no claims to perfection in programme planning. This is simply the direction I would be pointing you were you my student. Steve
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Post by petite joueuse on May 22, 2006 11:11:52 GMT
Thanks, Steve. That is actually VERY helpful.
And I wish I WAS your student!!
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Post by Steve Hopwood on May 22, 2006 11:17:56 GMT
Thanks, Steve. That is actually VERY helpful. My pleasure. Glad to be a help . I meant the Mozart is only slightly longer than the Chopin, but I guess you sussed that. Me too, PJ, me too. Steve
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Post by petite joueuse on May 22, 2006 12:17:08 GMT
Well... come on then Steve - when's my next lesson? How many virtual pupils have you had? Do I have to record my playing, upload it somewhere, get you to listen and then comment? And how are you going to demonstrate tricky fingering in the Scarlatti? And if I upload Ashkenazy playing Shostakovich and tell you its me, will you notice?
Have investigated the Mozart Adagio - might actually suit me! Need to get the music. Thanks again PJ (joueuse ET joyeuse!)
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Post by Steve Hopwood on May 22, 2006 12:37:23 GMT
Well... come on then Steve - when's my next lesson? How many virtual pupils have you had? Do I have to record my playing, upload it somewhere, get you to listen and then comment? I am beginning to wonder if a business opportunity is opening up via the internet, because I have indeed done this. Indy's little girl was coming up to her grade 3 a few months ago. Her teacher is also an AB examiner and was missing for a crucial month, so indy recorded her and emailed me the recording. I did an audio file back, making suggestions to improve her playing - helped a lot, it seems. On Saturday, I listened to YAP's Dochnanyi Rhaposdie and made some helpful (I hope) comments that I emailed back to him. So yes, anytime you want me to comment, just record yourself playing in mp3 (or convert your recording to mp3) format and email it to me as an attachment. Wouldn't I look a nit if I didn't and tried to make 'helpful comments' about the performance of one of my favourite pianists? ;D It is a great piece to play even if you don't use it as part of your programme. Steve
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