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Post by petite joueuse on Sept 26, 2006 9:30:47 GMT
Any thoughts on how to easily (!!) get my brain to read tenor clef (for the next step in my bassoon efforts)? Obviously I know the theory - but I'm SOOOOOOOO slow at reading the notes as I'm constantly having to calculate up or down from where I know C is! I play piano (so treble and bass clefs are not an issue). I also play soprano & tenor recorders, both reading from treble clef...though I have never managed to get my head round alto recorder. I also play bass recorder, reading from the bass clef, but I cheat ;)by pretending that what I'm reading is actually treble clef and then transposing it down a tone and using descant (C) fingering!! (If you've never tried it....well, honestly, it works!) I suspect I probably do something similar on bassoon (but don't tell my teacher!). What I have realised recently is that I tend to associate fingerings with notes on the stave....so if my teacher says "Play bflat", I have to mentally visualise where the note is on the stave before I play it. Oh dear! Am I doomed? Maybe woodwind is not for me!!
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Post by possom on Sept 26, 2006 11:04:59 GMT
I don't think I can help i'm afraid, sorry but I am also guilty of cheating When I first learned piano (without a teacher), I used to tell myself that the bass clef notes on the stave were the same letters as the treble clef, but on the piano an F for example was actually a D moved up 2 notes I have no idea how that worked for me looking back on it now, but at the time I had no trouble and was note perfect ;D
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Post by YetAnotherKlavierist on Sept 26, 2006 11:14:58 GMT
Just testing whether I can reply, ignore this....
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Post by petite joueuse on Sept 26, 2006 11:23:06 GMT
When I first learned piano (without a teacher), I used to tell myself that the bass clef notes on the stave were the same letters as the treble clef, but on the piano an F for example was actually a D moved up 2 notes I have no idea how that worked for me looking back on it now, but at the time I had no trouble and was note perfect ;D Ah...so I'm not the only one to cheat, then! (Fascinating the strategies people come up with!!)
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Post by Steve Hopwood on Sept 26, 2006 11:26:16 GMT
I think you have provided your own answer - "o if my teacher says "Play bflat", I have to mentally visualise where the note is on the stave before I play it." What about using visualisation on this problem? What about sitting in an armchair, glass of something nice in your hand, eyes closed, cat purring etc? What about visualising the stave and working out the appropriate fingering on the bassoon - all in your head? If visualisation isn't really your bag, then how about writing all the notes on the stave, reading them one after the other (out loud?) and fingering them on the bassoon. People often forget to harness the power of their brains when learning instruments because it is such a practical, hands-on activity. Visualisation can work in a wide variety of situations. I have read about top gymnasts spending hours visualising the exact muscle movements of a new routine before actually trying it out. If it works for them, it should work for us musos. I add my usual caveat when talking about something I have no direct experience of. I might be talking rubbish ;D Steve
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Post by YetAnotherKlavierist on Sept 26, 2006 11:28:06 GMT
I add my usual caveat when talking about something I have no direct experience of. I might be talking rubbish ;D Ahh, but you have 30 years' experience of maybe talking rubbish .
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Post by Steve Hopwood on Sept 26, 2006 12:13:23 GMT
I add my usual caveat when talking about something I have no direct experience of. I might be talking rubbish ;D Ahh, but you have 30 years' experience of maybe talking rubbish . That's why I am so good at it ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by princessmoose on Sept 26, 2006 12:42:02 GMT
It's going to take time so don't worry. Can you not get some really easy tunes/pieces in tenor clef so you can start from the beginning and train yourself into tenor mode?
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Post by petite joueuse on Sept 26, 2006 15:07:21 GMT
I have got a book of simple tunes in tenor clef - but I'm a bit concerned that since I know the tunes already, I'm not really "reading" the notes, but playing by ear. My other concern is that if I focus on tenor clef, it could well interfere with my already dubious reading of bass clef!
So, lots of practice in store for me over the coming weeks!
At orchestra, I really want to play the first bassoon part - infinitely more interesting than the second bassoon - but it frequently hops into tenor clef....sometimes in the middle of a bar! EEEEKKKK!
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Post by Dulciana on Sept 26, 2006 17:18:47 GMT
What about trying to read each note in relation to the previous note, rather than in relation to C? As in, line to line is two up, etc. Do it away from the instrument, and imagine yourself using whatever fingering is required for the note that's "two notes up" (random example). Sometimes to learn a new skill you have to unlearn what's already programmed in your brain - at least, temporarilly - to let the new concept in. Try thinking in intervals rather than letter names.
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Post by petite joueuse on Sept 26, 2006 19:21:45 GMT
Yes Patricia, I think you're right - reading (and playing) intervals might be a better approach.
Thanks for all the ideas, but, you know, it would never have crossed my mind to even suggest that Steve ever talks anything approaching rubbish..................
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Post by possom on Sept 26, 2006 21:18:05 GMT
Thinking about it, I played viola for 2 years and didn't have a clue about reading the clef, I did it through intervals and knowing where to put the fingers ;D
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Post by SuzyMac on Oct 2, 2006 10:14:24 GMT
When I played cello I had to use tenor clef - I used many cheats: playing by intervals, reading as (can't quite remember) bass clef and moving up a string (?) and re-writing in treble clef.
Even now teaching theory I have to think ;D
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