Strange Piano tutor book

[kerioboe]

This is a post for Steve (and anyone else who's interested) to ask what he thinks of this as a method. My younger daughter had her first piano lesson on Saturday and decided she didn't like it and doesn't want to go back. Her teacher lent me the book she uses for beginners so I could try and convince my daughter to continue. The book starts with the child playing up and down the piano with the palm of their hand (and then doing the same thing crossing over hands). I have always forbidden visiting children to do this to my piano and one of the things my daughter said afterwards she didn't like about the lesson was that this was not how she wanted to play the piano.
The first lesson with notes has them playing middle C, the E above and the G above all with the third finger. A few pages further on they "walk" their 2nd and 3rd fingers up and down the piano crossing them over (ie like a thumb under exercise but with fingers). Finger substitution is introduced at an early stage and once they can play a tune they do so with one hand while the other forearm holds down all the notes between two given notes.
The other thing my daughter objected to was being told to stand up instead of sitting down so that a) she could reach both extremities of the piano (by walking if necessary) and b) so she wouldn't kick the piano with her dangling legs (something she has never done at home).

I am quite prepared to be told that I am old-fashioned and that things have changed since I learnt but it did find it all a bit odd.

(I should add that this is in the same music school which insists on an hour's (very traditional) theory from the word go).

[Steve Hopwood]

What a fascinating post, keriobe. Thank you.

sophie said:

This is a post for Steve (and anyone else who's interested) to ask what he thinks of this as a method. My younger daughter had her first piano lesson on Saturday and decided she didn't like it and doesn't want to go back. Her teacher lent me the book she uses for beginners so I could try and convince my daughter to continue. The book starts with the child playing up and down the piano with the palm of their hand (and then doing the same thing crossing over hands). I have always forbidden visiting children to do this to my piano

Why? The piano is a damn great hard thing and kids are kids - small and soft things. They are not going to hurt it with the palm of their hand. I have a grand that would cost £14,000 to replace, and I do not object to such behaviour. Mind you, I am a softie ;D

and one of the things my daughter said afterwards she didn't like about the lesson was that this was not how she wanted to play the piano.

I doesn't do to take too much notice of a child under these circumstances. It does them no harm to learn to be flexible.

The first lesson with notes has them playing middle C, the E above and the G above all with the third finger.

OK, one tries to be broadminded and open to new ideas.

A few pages further on they "walk" their 2nd and 3rd fingers up and down the piano crossing them over (ie like a thumb under exercise but with fingers).

Well, OK. It is never too soon to introduce the concept that the piano is a great big thing with a lot of notes to play.

Finger substitution is introduced at an early stage and once they can play a tune they do so with one hand while the other forearm holds down all the notes between two given notes.

What? An actual tune? A real tune? This has taken a while. The left hand is doing what?

The other thing my daughter objected to was being told to stand up instead of sitting down so that a) she could reach both extremities of the piano (by walking if necessary) and b) so she wouldn't kick the piano with her dangling legs (something she has never done at home).

Actually, standing up to play is useful for small children under certain circumstances. Tell your daughter to be more flexible.

I am quite prepared to be told that I am old-fashioned and that things have changed since I learnt but it did find it all a bit odd.

(I should add that this is in the same music school which insists on an hour's (very traditional) theory from the word go).

OK, so I have poked a little fun here at you and your daughter but I am horrified by most of what I have read. I therefore apologise unreservedly. ;D

I am not surprised that this is the same insane school that insists on ridiculous amounts of theory.

My experience is that kids learn a musical instrument because they want to play music. At the start, this means playing recognisable 'tunes'. Any tutor method that does not get learners playing 'tunes' immediately misses the whole reason why kids start playing in the first place.

Having said all that, keriobe, I cannot claim to have discovered all the answers to the problems met when teaching kids to play the piano. How about asking your daughter's (ex?) teacher if you can listen to some kids who have been playing for a few years and who started off with this method? You never know, but there might be something we could all learn from.

Steve

[chocolatedog]

The only thing I can say in its possible defence (although I have no idea what the tutor book is) is that using the palm of the hand is good if it is used to help produce the correct arm/wrist movements from the word go. There are methods which concentrate on the larger movements first before using the finer control of finger action....... it wasn't a book by Kurtag was it? What is the actual book called? I'd be interested to actually see a copy.....I often use what I call 'splats' or 'plonks' in my teaching where I get the pupil to practise an action or technique without worrying about what the notes are that they're actually playing and then when that's grasped we refine it further and use the correct notes.

[caz]

It really does seem a strange way to start though - surely there should also be some flexibility with regard to the child. One would hope that a good teacher would be able to see which bits of the lesson the child was responding to and build on that. It seems terribly sad that a child who actually _wants_ to play the piano could be put off by piano lessons.

[kerioboe]

The book is called "Le Piano en mouvement" and is published by Billaudot - I don't know if it is available in the UK.

Just a point for Chocolate Dog, I could understand playing with the palm of your hand for the arm movement if it was frontways on but the way my daughter was supposed to be doing it was sideways on. I'm not sure if this makes sense, but it was if you imagine you are going to cross your arms and play with your fingers parallel to the keys rather than pointing towards the back of the piano.

Anyway, this morning at the last minute daughter decided she would go and give the lessons a second try. One of the advantages of the system here is that you can have six free lessons before you pay the annual fee. And she came out of it considerably happier. The teacher had taught her the beginning of "Au Clair de la Lune" with both hands separatly and had said if she really insisted on sitting down she could. They had also played a game of making up how different animals would walk/jump/run up and down the piano and daughter who is animal crazy had liked this. I am keeping my fingers crossed that this positive experience will make her forget the first negative one. (Although daughter is not a simple soul - she is both gifted and a selective mute).