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Post by Steve Hopwood on Oct 16, 2006 13:56:00 GMT
Am I right to be playing them as simple semiquavers - the LH being quavers, but pretty fast? I can work in the turn - if that's the right term (I'm not good with terms...) - at the start, and can keep it going fhythmically reasonably well, but am not sure how to end. At the minute, I'm just stopping the trill short in time to get the next notes in at the right place! It keeps going, but is far from ideal. I take the movement at a moderate enough speed to be able to play demi-semi trills. The long ones starting at bar 112, I love to stop a quaver early, for example on a D on the fourth quaver of bar 114. I like the way it sounds when I do that, plus it gives me a little more time to get my wits together for the next bit. This is a horrible passage if your hand is small. If you have to compromise, how about keeping up the tempo and not holding the long notes?
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Post by Dulciana on Oct 16, 2006 16:09:49 GMT
Thanks for that! I had a horrible feeling you'd say that about demi-semiquavers....
That's what I was thinking of for the other passage. I don't have small hands, by the way; I just can't ****** do it!
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Post by Dulciana on Oct 21, 2006 0:25:41 GMT
Thinking about bar 122 - do you hold the RH Bb with 2, and is that why you said what you said about small hands? That fingering didn't cross my mind until now as there is actually no way I could do that and get to the following A and G! I'm holding it with my thumb, which means I'm having to play the next A and G right up between the black notes. Thankfully I don't have fat fingers which would render this utterly impossible, but it ain't easy! I've decided that I don't want to compromise here if I can avoid it, because I think this is one of the nicest passages in the whole thing. And no, I can't do demi-semi trills. . At least I don't think I can. If I just go as fast as I possibly can (please don't throw your hands up in horror) and concentrate on the two-in-a-bar tick-tock, I think it sounds okay, but I have absolutely no idea how many notes I'm playing. My speed (minus current breakdowns ) is 95 crotchets per minute. Slower would seem more sensible, but I can't; I've listened to it too often, and if I play it more slowly I just speed up anyway! But I'll have to record the trill section and see what it really sounds like. Sorry for boring you with all this! I'm in danger of turning a perfectly interesting thread into a personal practice diary!!
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Post by Steve Hopwood on Oct 21, 2006 9:27:48 GMT
Thinking about bar 122 - do you hold the RH Bb with 2, and is that why you said what you said about small hands? That fingering didn't cross my mind until now as there is actually no way I could do that and get to the following A and G! I'm holding it with my thumb, which means I'm having to play the next A and G right up between the black notes. Thankfully I don't have fat fingers which would render this utterly impossible, but it ain't easy! I've decided that I don't want to compromise here if I can avoid it, because I think this is one of the nicest passages in the whole thing. You can have the best of all worlds: Bar 122 beat 1: finger the semis 1-3-1-2 so your thumb can go on the Bb. This means you have to play the quaver C at the end of the previous bar staccato so you can thumb twice * ducks boot thrown by caz. Bar 123 beat 1: finger the semis 5352. 2nd beat: Slip your thumb onto the C (means letting go of the Bb slightly early but the sound is pretty well defunct by now) and you can hold it whilst going onto 4-3-2 for the final descending semis. Complicated, but ok once you are used to it. Don't get hung up over the trills. They are there merely to sustain the note on the harpsichord, so they simply need to be even in a rhythm more interesting than mere 1-1 semis. They also need to be soft, because the melodic interest is in the LH. Wiggle your digits as quickly as you can and keep your wiggling speed consistent; it will sound great. ;D That's ok. The great thing is, I play this piece. Whilst I do not claim my ideas are the ultimate answer to life, the universe and everything, they do arise from knowing the music, so you may as well pick my brains.
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Post by Dulciana on Oct 21, 2006 11:07:57 GMT
[quote author=stevehopwood board=piano thread=1160777976 Bar 122 beat 1: finger the semis 1-3-1-2 so your thumb can go on the Bb. This means you have to play the quaver C at the end of the previous bar staccato so you can thumb twice * ducks boot thrown by caz. Bar 123 beat 1: finger the semis 5352. 2nd beat: Slip your thumb onto the C (means letting go of the Bb slightly early but the sound is pretty well defunct by now) and you can hold it whilst going onto 4-3-2 for the final descending semis. Complicated, but ok once you are used to it. [/quote] YO! I love you, Steve! I'd been using 4's in places where a 4 just didn't want to go, and it was impossible to get any clarity. What you're suggesting also keeps it rhythmic, as it sort of brings more slurs in (if I'm making any sense) in places where I was too legato. I don't get the 5352 for the first beat of bar 123 . I WAS doing 2543 (awkward 4 again...), then jumping to 5 for the Middle C, but since you've suggested a thumb for the C I'm now doing 3532-1 (1 being C) and holding the C with thumb. I read your post, went back to the piano, and have gained more in the last 5 minutes than I've done in the last 5 days! Thank you!
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Post by Steve Hopwood on Oct 21, 2006 11:56:27 GMT
I don't get the 5352 for the first beat of bar 123 . I WAS doing 2543 (awkward 4 again...), then jumping to 5 for the Middle C, but since you've suggested a thumb for the C I'm now doing 3532-1 (1 being C) and holding the C with thumb. Oops. Sorry. Complete missprint. I meant 3532-1. 5352 would land youin hospital ;D You couldn't be more welcome.
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Post by Dulciana on Oct 28, 2006 9:54:53 GMT
Update for Steve - going fairly well. Having a little difficulty keeping it all at the same speed, though, after practising it in sections; some bits just keep wanting to be faster, while the trickier bits aren't so keen. Ok with metronome, but I think I need a metronome installed in my head! My only compromise now is to leave out the mordent in bar 46. Sometimes it comes off okay, but usually not, and it sounds awful to hold back the pulse for it, so it's gonner. If I think too hard about it, the LH goes to the dogs!
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Post by Steve Hopwood on Oct 28, 2006 17:27:09 GMT
Update for Steve - going fairly well. Having a little difficulty keeping it all at the same speed, though, after practising it in sections; some bits just keep wanting to be faster, while the trickier bits aren't so keen. Ok with metronome, but I think I need a metronome installed in my head! Keeping a steady pulse is hard; it is a skill worth working on for those occasions your are accompanying or playing chamber music. How about a compromise compromise? How about substituting a grace note for the mordent?
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Post by Dulciana on Oct 29, 2006 12:58:25 GMT
Never thought of a grace note!
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Post by Dulciana on Oct 30, 2006 1:48:46 GMT
U still up Steve? Feeling pleased with myself today! It's such a nice feeling when a piece of music starts falling into place, so that you can stop concentrating so hard on playing it and actually enjoy listening to yourself! Especially with this type of thing - when it really starts becoming automatic you can really get into the seperate parts. I hadn't got this far when I practised this before!
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Post by anacrusis on Oct 30, 2006 13:32:38 GMT
Hey, Steve, d'you fancy learning the recorder too, so I can benefit from your advice as well? My keyboard skills are irremediable, sadly...
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Post by Steve Hopwood on Oct 30, 2006 15:05:57 GMT
U still up Steve? Feeling pleased with myself today! It's such a nice feeling when a piece of music starts falling into place, so that you can stop concentrating so hard on playing it and actually enjoy listening to yourself! Especially with this type of thing - when it really starts becoming automatic you can really get into the seperate parts. I hadn't got this far when I practised this before! Sorry, I went to bed a bit abruptly last night. I think my feet decided it was time to go, so the rest of me just followed passively. ;D Great that the piece is coming together; it is such good fun to play. Anacrusis, my recorder playing would leave you helpless with mirth. Well, helpless anyway.
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Post by Dulciana on Oct 30, 2006 15:31:30 GMT
[quote author=stevehopwood board=piano thread=1160777976 Sorry, I went to bed a bit abruptly last night. I think my feet decided it was time to go, so the rest of me just followed passively. ;D [/quote] That's okay! We'll allow you a little time off - as long as it's only between the hours of 2 a.m. and 6 a.m.
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Post by Dulciana on Nov 17, 2006 0:52:40 GMT
Can I do a little more brain-picking on the Italian? The LH of bars 48 and 49 (and the G in 50)!! Looks straightforward enough but every time I play this my fingers want to go a different way. What do you use here? I've no idea why this is giving me problems, but I can't get consistency here! I never really focussed on this bit before, as it's far from being one of the most difficuly passages, but it's a place where I very often blunder.
I've still got a few other dodgy areas, but on the whole I'm getting there. 96-101 goes ok if I shut my eyes, and the LH of bar 108 is fudgy - and I'm still not happy with the trills - but it's a question of practice, and I'll get there in the end. Why I can't get my head round bars 48 and 49 I really don't know!
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Post by Steve Hopwood on Nov 17, 2006 12:16:11 GMT
Can I do a little more brain-picking on the Italian? The LH of bars 48 and 49 (and the G in 50)!! Looks straightforward enough but every time I play this my fingers want to go a different way. What do you use here? I've no idea why this is giving me problems, but I can't get consistency here! I never really focussed on this bit before, as it's far from being one of the most difficuly passages, but it's a place where I very often blunder. I've still got a few other dodgy areas, but on the whole I'm getting there. 96-101 goes ok if I shut my eyes, and the LH of bar 108 is fudgy - and I'm still not happy with the trills - but it's a question of practice, and I'll get there in the end. Why I can't get my head round bars 48 and 49 I really don't know! The RH isn't easy at this point, so the coordination is complicated. I start 1&5 on the C&G, then my thumb on C & G in bar 48, then on D & B in 49. This lands my 4th on the final B of the run, so I do a childlike tuck under with my 5th for the G at the start of bar 50. If you try this, just don't dislocate anything getting onto the G ;D
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